Workplace sexism against men vs sexism against women [closed]

Question

(By the way, I am male...)

My male boss was recently seriously berated at work for some sexist comments he had made to a female colleague of mine, which turned into quite a scandal. He was almost fired from his job, and sent on some equality training course.

Now, as part of the investigation, I was called in and interviewed by a team from human resources. I was asked to confirm or deny whether I had heard him say any of the things which he was accused of saying. There were three things, and if I remember correctly, they were: calling her "darling", telling her that she had "beautiful hair", and saying that all of the male employees "probably want to date her". The only complaints were about things he had said -- there was nothing about physical contact etc.

I told them that I hadn't heard him say any of these things, and then they moved onto asking me about sexism generally at my work. They asked me if I was aware of anything at all involving people other than this boss and this female colleague. It then dawned on me that my other boss, who is female (I kind of have two bosses), often says similar things to me. She certainly regularly calls me "darling" too, and she often comments on how she thinks I am good looking, and that I must be very popular with female employees. At a work party, she even once told me that if she wasn't married, then she would "fancy me".

I had never thought twice about these comments made to me, but seeing as I was being asked, I told all this during the interview. I then told them that I saw it as pretty much the same level of comments as have been directed to my female colleague. In return, they said that this was fine, because I hadn't previously made a complaint about it. I thought this was odd, given that these rules should probably apply regardless of whether a complaint is made.

Anyway, I then asked them what would happen, if I did make a complaint about these comments to me (just out of curiosity, I didn't actually want to make this complaint). They then told me that because it was a woman saying these things to a man, then it was "less harmful", whereas from a man these comments "come across as sleazier". They then explained that for a woman saying things to a man, the comments would have to be significantly more provocative and sexual for it to be taken seriously as a complaint, when these comments would be taken seriously if it was a man saying it to a woman. They said that comments like this from a man are usually interpreted as "oppressive and objectifying", whereas from a woman they are usually interpreted as "friendly and complementary".

This really shocked me, because it is such an obvious double standard. Everything else was equal about this -- the types of comments made to each other, and the ages of everyone (both bosses ~40, both me and my colleague ~30) -- and the only different was the gender. So my company effectively have a policy that makes it a much worse offence for a man to be sexist than for a woman to be sexist.

• Is there a way to raise the awareness of female colleagues that sexism works in both ways? Should one be calm and objective or more emotional when arguing about it?
• How to overcome the problem that it may be perceived as not so serious if female superiors make compliments to male colleagues? Just approach them directly? How does HR react, given that HR is sometimes dominantly female?
• How to react if a female colleague state that "women are better at ..." (usually claiming better social skills)?

Answer 1

Why do anything?

I don't see any reason for you to jeapordise working relationships, stir the pot and make trouble over relatively innocuous remarks.

It's best not to get involved in anything but your actual work unless there is a serious issue affecting you personally which interferes with your primary objective of making money and rising in your career. Especially when it is a manager you would be complaining about.

Double standards are everywhere from politics to small group dynamics, they're a fact of social interaction that people deal with all the time. They're even enshrined in law.

A general rule of thumb is not to get involved with anyone else's disciplinary measures unless it's your role, you have a professional stake in its outcome, or you have the leverage to force the issue without repercussions to yourself.

Answer 2

Feelings matter. The exact same words delivered between two different people can evoke different feelings. If the person hearing it is vulnerable and has been harassed before, the words can bring up fear and worry, reminding them of a previous experience that started similarly. Since there's no business need for comments like these, they are best avoided. If the person hearing it is privileged and doesn't believe they would ever be harassed, the words don't bring up those kinds of feelings and the person hearing them knows they can safely be ignored.

This isn't a double standard. It is the HR people caring about the impact of the words on the hearer more than the actual words. You have said to us and to them that you didn't care, weren't hurt, had forgotten, and so on. I wouldn't expect anyone to pursue action in that case. Your colleague did care, was hurt, and went to the HR people for help. I hope her boss learns how not to hurt her, or others, in the future.

In the meantime please avoid strutting around saying "I don't get it. My boss says all that to me and it doesn't bother me at all, and nobody tells her not to." That will only upset your colleague, your boss, and your colleagues boss as well.

Answer 3

A male boss saying "darling" to a female employee

The statements made by your male boss is a typical first step of a courtship ritual for a man. Any woman who has been the target of unwanted attention a couple of times will recognize it. It may look perfectly civilized on the surface, and it probably feels this way to the boss too. It is still a signal that the boss would very much like to create more intimacy. Even if he does not plan to act on that desire, it is still extremely uncomfortable for the targeted woman. It legitimately creeps her out.

A very devious thing here is that men tend to overestimate the reciprocity of attraction. If he sends a mild signal of attraction and the woman does not immediately act with aversion but simply takes it with embarrassed silence, he sees this as acceptance enough to press a bit more if the situation presents itself. If the woman is too shy to openly rebuff him for whatever reason, this creates a very awkward situation. And the fewest people are brave enough to openly confront their boss, especially when it comes to personal matters.

Woman -> man sexual harassment

Now you are asking, what about the reverse situation? Well, if we have a woman boss signalling her sexual attraction to a male employee, then you are correct. This is as much of a sexism issue as the other way around. Maybe men are wired in a way that they are less likely to perceive attention from a woman as unwanted, but it still can happen. And when it happens, they are entitled to be taken seriously, and to receive support in dealing with it.

A female boss calling a male employee "darling"

Statements like "you have nice hair" or calling someone "darling" are not connected to sexual attraction for women the way they are for men. Women frequently use them with people to whom they are not attracted, and rarely make them part of their courtship ritual. While they are statements whose relationship aspect dominates their factual information aspect, they do not establish an admirer/pursued relationship when used by women. Conversely, you will not hear a straight man calling their male employee "darling", because that would imply such a relationship. Human language is complex like that.

It is difficult to define what statements made by a woman would be equivalent to those made by your male boss. This is because women tend to use more nonverbal behavior at the early steps of the courtship ritual. If you were to notice that your female boss is wearing lipstick only on days when she has a meeting scheduled with you, this would be a comparable signal to a man's "you have nice hair".

Is this an example of double standard?

I am not denying that a double standard exists, with men having it hard to convince people that they can be the target of sexism. But the situation you describe is not an example of the double standard. It is a sensible policy which does take into account the intricacies of human communication. The words uttered may be the same, but the real signal behind them is quite different.

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The fine print - please read if you disagree with the above

To preempt critics, because it's a rather sensitive topic: please do not try to draw too broad generalizations from this post. I am perfectly aware that there are courtship behaviors which men and women have in common. A woman patting a man's bum is just as inappropriate as a man patting a woman's bum. The post focuses on the exact kind of statement noted in the question.

Also, I am aware that there are individual differences. There can be women who send early verbal signals of attraction, or men who manage to use "darling" without being sleazy. Still, the answer above covers the average situation pretty well. The policy exists to establish the standard operation procedure for the average situation, but in the individual case, it matters whether the target is creeped out or not.

I am also sure that I will get comments saying that the differences I described above shouldn't exist, are not natural, describe a patriarchal norm, etc. A debate over nature vs. nurture would be irrelevant here. Fact is, we are living in a world in which the difference exists. Targets of sexual harassment should be given support based on the reality they live in and not on "if women behaved exactly as men and reacted to external stimuli exactly as men, the world would be simpler and we'd have real equality".

Another topic I didn't touch on is that same-gender harassment also exists, that transgender harassment is different from harassment between cisgendered people, etc. I kept the answer heteronormative, because it is complex enough without me addressing issues with which I have little experience and which are not relevant for the concrete situation experienced by the OP.

Answer 4

It's not an obvious double standard because you are not in the same position to begin with, being male. You just wrote you hadn't actually thought about it before, that's a luxury women don't have in general. That's just a fact. That's why it makes perfect sense to consider that the exact same words don't have the same meaning when uttered by a woman. That context makes all the difference.

From that perspective, what you should do about the whole situation is educated yourself about the issues and focus on the more pressing problem (it's not men's rights or your boss relatively minor inconvenience…).