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Background: I am working in a mid size company and I am a software/Web developer. The IT team is really small (just me and my team lead). I am fairly new to this organization (40 days to be precise). I do software programming/coding, handle IT requests, etc.

Now before joining here, I applied for a part time position at a global banking organization. I have got an offer letter about two weeks ago from this bank. I am required to work only 10 hours a week. I work six hours on a Saturday, which is easy because my company only works from Monday to Friday. However, I need to take four hours off on Friday afternoon every week. The first week, I took a personal half day off. But I can't afford to take one every week nor will my employer take it lightly.

I really want to do both jobs. I love this company. But I also want to work there as it is something I have wanted to do for a long time (understanding how a banking organization works). It is also an opportunity I can't let go easily.

Now my manager at the branch understands my situation perfectly. I was very honest about this in the interview. I told them I already have a full time job and that it will be difficult to make it every Friday afternoon. She said it is ok to work only on Saturdays for now, but she would really appreciate it if I can make it on Friday afternoons as well.

However, I myself want to work on Friday afternoons there. I am more than ready to work the extra four hours mid week. However, my employer might not take that well. Also, the fact that I am new here certainly doesn't help.

How do I tell my main employer about this? How do I convince him that I need half day off every Friday, without affecting my schedule here? What reason should I give him? I am thinking that if I told him I am working in another organization, he wouldn't take it too well.

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    Would you be open to dropping to part-time at your main job to allow you more time at the bank job? – David K Jul 16 '18 at 17:31
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    Is your full-time employer aware of this part-time job? This is really important to come up with a proper phrasing – DarkCygnus Jul 16 '18 at 17:38
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    @DarkCygnus No he isnt,,, not yet.. – Procrastinating Programmer Jul 16 '18 at 17:43
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    Is your full-time employer open to a flexible and/or teleworking schedule (maybe not if you're brand new)? 1/2-hr lunch or working a 4-10 schedule? Could you work the remaining 4hrs during the week or on Sundays? Also, don't underestimate the added impact of taking on what seems like "only" 10hrs. There will be additional mandatory learning, training, meetings, schedule changes, etc that you'll need to balance with your full-time job. Is it a PT teller job or more in-depth? Question is: which job gets you closer to achieving your life/career goals? Do you want to work in finance or IT? – mc01 Jul 16 '18 at 22:07
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    @AlexT Please incorporate your responses to the requested clarifications directly into your post. Delete your comments and flag the other comments as obsolete when done. Thanks. – Masked Man Jul 17 '18 at 9:18

11 Answers 11

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A possible schedule is working 9 hours M-Th, and then 4 on Friday, which keeps you at full time. However, you need to find reasons that benefits your company, not you. If you can come up with good reasons that will be beneficial to the company, then present that to your boss. If the ONLY reason is that it will make you happier (because you'll be able to work the second job), that is probably not enough to convince your boss. (But it might be, if you're valuable enough.)

Also, if your boss doesn't know about the second job, be prepared for some unhappiness when that is found out. If you have a contract forbidding it, there will probably be greater repercussions than just unhappiness. If you don't have a contract forbidding it, and you can talk to your boss about it, that might (might!) work out better than hiding it from your boss.

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    I checked my contract... Doesnt specifically state anything like that... Just something like "no conflict of interest" – Procrastinating Programmer Jul 16 '18 at 17:59
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    @AlexT That would be it. Getting a second job in a similar role could be seen as a "conflict of interest." Very difficult to say but it doesn't hurt to ask HR or your manager if you can hold a second job. It sounds like you're trying to be secretive about this which will backfire on you. – Dan Jul 16 '18 at 19:05
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    @AlexT Don't focus on your role as the sole determinant: conflict of interest is intentionally broad and may relate to whole industries, or to relationships between your existing employer's clients and your new employer's clients, or many other things. View it not from the perspective of what's fair to you, but what the person who authored the contract could see as a potential risk (loss of IP, profit, "loss of competitive advantage", etc). – msanford Jul 16 '18 at 20:09
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    I agree with the answer, but want to add nuance when you said If the ONLY reason is that it will make you happier, that is probably not enough to convince your boss. Just because it doesn't benefit the company doesn't mean that they will refuse it. It could simply be a matter of not hindering the company (even if it doesn't actually benefit them). Your phrasing, however, suggests that without an actual benefit, it won't be approved; which is a somewhat pessimistic expectation of the manager's response. – Flater Jul 17 '18 at 7:03
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    I've heard of "conflict of interest" going as far as not having the employee being well-rested and wholly present (either mentally or physically) for the job. Second jobs can be a pretty difficult sell for employers of white-collar workers. – Celos Jul 18 '18 at 8:42
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I am more than ready to work the extra four hours mid week.

Not meaning to be picky, but those are not extra four hours. They would be extra if you took them along with your full day at the IT job, but you are proposing to cut the full-time job in half that day (so you will have normal work hours).

Being realistic, it's unlikely your IT employer will agree to give you half day off on Fridays, not without some form of compensation (like, say, making half the money that day). However, the only way to be sure is to ask and be receptive for alternatives.

Now, part of handling 2 jobs at the same time is that you will have to organize yourself and make some sacrifices choices. You have 10 hours to fit in your schedule and they can only come from cutting down other things you do.

Other option you got is to work all your hours on Saturday, so you don't have to take half day off at your full-time job. However, working 10 hour straight on a single day may prove tiresome (but if you are handling 2 jobs at the same time you knew you were up to this).

Alternatively, you could try see if it's possible to divide your 10 hours in the bank through the week. Say, 2 hours each day for a total of 10 hours. This way you will still have to make an extra effort each day (full-time plus 2 hours), but you will have all Saturdays and Sundays free to rest. You could also do some extra hours each day on the full-time job to compensate for half Friday off.


Edit per clarifications: Seems that the situation is more complex than portrayed, as the full-time employer is not aware of this second job...

Before asking for Fridays off, you must first disclose to your full-time employer this part-time job you took. This can prove a delicate situation. Not only may he dislike the idea, as it will surely be a strain on yourself and perhaps drop your productivity on the IT job. I just hope you checked your contract to see if taking 2 jobs was not restricted somehow, or this will turn ugly.

When disclosing this, try to keep it simple and without much elaboration. Say that you have this other job, that does not compete with the IT one and that definitely does not drop your productivity on it. You have to make them realize this is not only for your benefit.

After that you can consider asking for Fridays off. When you do, try again to convince them why is this beneficial for them (or at least why this isn't harmful). Be open for alternatives they may propose and be ready to make some compromises.

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    The problem is .. the bank and the company are 50 kms from each other. I cant drive that much every day. I would happily work the ten hours on Saturday, but bank is open only six hours. I dont mind being not paid for the half day. I would say it is fair. But HOW DO I CONVINCE HIM? – Procrastinating Programmer Jul 16 '18 at 17:45
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    can't you remote work on the bank? @AlexT given your comments, it seems that first you have to disclose to him you have this second job, before even considering asking for half Fridays off... if you just straight come up to him and ask for that he will surely not like it and be surprised to say the least... – DarkCygnus Jul 16 '18 at 17:47
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    @AlexT We don't know your manager, we can't tell you the words to say that will convince him (for one manager it might be just asking, for another you don't need any words but a $50 bill, for another you need a detailed cost-benefit breakdown). But in general, a manager's job is to make the most of his employees - so you have to prove that you getting this special treatment will increase productivity or provide some other benefit. You do know your manager, though. Also, most solutions will decompose to "talk to your manager about the problem. Possibly get reprimanded for working extra job." – Delioth Jul 16 '18 at 19:32
  • Thanks @MichaelKjörling for pointing it out. My answer still holds. The interpretation of what is "conflict of interest" is up to the manager and the parts involved now... IANAL but I'd guess there was no obvious conflict based on the question. Still, would be wise to check with legal counsel. – DarkCygnus Jul 17 '18 at 13:45
  • @DarkCygnus For the moment I'm just going to tell him I am working part time on Saturdays. The bank is OK with Saturdays for now. After a couple of months I may bring the Friday afternoon thing. Working on Saturdays shouldnt be a problem right? Saturdays are off for us – Procrastinating Programmer Jul 18 '18 at 12:51
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There have been some questions here where I told people to not work more than 40 hours a week, because it is inefficient. Your productivity drops. Not only your productivity per hour, but actually your productivity per week. Companies shouldn't require more than 40 hours a week, because it hurts the employee and doesn't actually benefit the company.

What you are suggesting here is the worst for the company: You want to work more than 40 hours a week, which will tire you out, so you will be less productive per hour, and at the same time you work less hours for the company. So they lose out completely. Not something any company would agree to.

So you are quite right that you wouldn't want to tell your main company the truth. But think about it: What do you think will happen when they figure out the truth (which they will)? There is a good chance that there are terms in your contract that require permission to take on a second job. Your main job may be gone when they find out.

  • That is right @Steve OP's last question says that he is soon to be in Canada, and is currently (?) in India. – DarkCygnus Jul 17 '18 at 18:52
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"I want experience in the banking industry."

This implies you're towards the start of your career. My answer to this question would change depending on where in your career you are. If you're in your twenties and trying to stuff as much as possible into each day, let me start with this: focus on the job at hand.

The IT industry will reward you more for intense application to the job you do than experience in a particular industry. I personally have worked in advertising, health care administration, veterinary health care, credit card processing, banking, health assessment, ticketing, banking, online publishing, and direct consumer sales. Having a broad skill set acquired on the job within these industries makes me more valuable than experience in any of them would.

It makes significantly more sense to acquire skill at your job and a reputation with your co-workers for doing that extra ten hours of work than to take a second job in an unrelated industry.

Not to mention: If you have the focus and patience to spend 10 hours building your own applications outside work you will probably not need employment in ten years. Let alone the kind of employment that comes with working in banking software.

Someone older, well, the money and short-term gain might be more important. But building a reputation for excellence is a much better long-term career path than being broadly unfocused. Which, honestly, has been somewhat detrimental to my career.

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My last employer (which was a bank) required us to be available for such things as production support or installs. This meant night or weekends if needed.

In this case code was moved to production Friday evenings and we had to be available to support if issues arose. Failover testing was done on Saturday's after the nightly batch had completed.

You are trying to have it both ways - keep working your full-time job and have the employer accommodate your choice of schedule. You'll need to explain to your employer how this benefits them.

Questions for you to ask yourself before discussing with your employer:

  • How will you handle off-hour production support?
  • What about holiday weeks? If there was a compressed four day week would you be able to work three 12-hour days with the 4 on Friday?
  • I will not be working in a software role for the bank. The bank is flexible with my timings. – Procrastinating Programmer Jul 17 '18 at 19:14
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    You are working in software for you main employer. That's who you need to convince. Have a plan for such things as production support before having the discussion. – JazzmanJim Jul 17 '18 at 19:35
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Now my manager at the branch understands my situation perfectly. I was very honest about this in the interview. I told them I already have a full time job and that it will be difficult to make it every Friday afternoon. She said it is ok to work only on Saturdays for now, but she would really appreciate it if I can make it on Friday afternoons as well.

Seeing as you've been more transparent towards your part-time employer than you were towards your full-time, I'd say try and shift your efforts towards negotiating with the Saturday job instead. Ask if they would be fine with you being there only for six hours on a Saturday. The way you put it they've been really understanding of your current situation, which should make it easier to communicate terms with them.

Of course, you'll likely end up getting less if they agree, but this keeps you in a much more comfortable position than trying to negotiate doing less time at your full-time job to make room for a part-time job, which, like other people here already mentioned, puts you in a really delicate situation.

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You should be transparent with your full-time company. Tell them that you are taking on a second job as soon as possible.

The reasons for this are twofold:

  1. They are going to find out when your tax returns come in. Having two jobs affects the amount of tax your are required to pay.
  2. They can change the work schedule to adapt to your circumstances ensuring that they have enough cover for the hours that you aren't there.

On a more personal note I think you should consider not accepting the bank job, you might find you need the personal time at the weekend to recharge and prevent burnout.

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    OP indicated that "I really want to do both jobs. I love this company. But I also want to work there as it is something I have wanted to do for a long time", so taking it or not is really up to him and we can't answer if OP should or not. – DarkCygnus Jul 17 '18 at 18:36
  • @DarkCygnus my primary point about the tax hasn't been addressed elsewhere – Burgi Jul 17 '18 at 23:05
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In order to convince your employer to give you that time off, you will need to present a case that it is in someway beneficial to them, or at least that they are not any worse off for it. In general your full-time employer will see no benefit to you working for another company instead of them when you have already agreed to a full time contract.

Since you have mentioned your company don't know about your second job, it's an awkward proposition to make. Some companies are flexible, but there is no way you will be able to convince them to work for your second employer on Friday without having it affect your schedule. In a best case scenario if your employer is willing to work with you, you will need to make up that time somewhere else. This is how you convince them to let you take a Friday off every week. You tell them you will make up the time elsewhere. Remember, what you want does not matter to your employer. They hired you (and you agreed) to work full time and from their perspective you're asking if you can work less for no benefit to them.

Since you say you don't think your employer would take it well, I would instead try to work with your second employer to see if they're fine with you working some other hours. If not, you'll probably have to make a choice as to which job you like more. You can't always have it both ways.

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1) Before doing ANYTHING, check with your boss (or HR) at your current job to make sure that this second job does not create a conflict of interest or other issues. If it does, then you have to make a decision of which job you want more, because you can't keep both. Remember: Honesty is the best policy.

2) Explain to your boss that this second endeavour is a personal passion of yours and that you would like to engage in pursuing your passion. No reasonable boss would say no to allowing their employees to pursue their passion outside of their job if it does not impact their performance on the job. Do not explain it as "a second job", because that might make your boss think you have divided loyalties. You can mention it's a second job, but the crux of the discussion should be centered on "this is a passion of mine, I really want to do this for personal growth and development in a field I am interested in"; presenting it as "a second job" could be construed as "I want to work harder, but I don't want to work harder for you, I'd rather work harder for these other people", which looks bad on you.

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    This answer is really similar to the ones posted before, except perhaps on the possible approach of selling this as a "passion" (but still, repeating other suggestions of negotiating and "selling" this idea to the manager). Mind rephrasing it to make it more different to the others? Perhaps including new suggestions. – DarkCygnus Jul 17 '18 at 18:43
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I simply would ask for a 90% or even 80% contract with your current company. Part time work is nearly standard in this field of work. But, you need to tell your boss that you use this time for another job. This is because it might be a company which is seen as competitor for you current company. In this case, your boss is allowed to deny this, even forbid it (which is usually already stated in your contract). If this should not be the case, and you only need to reason for the reduction, you need to try to sell the advantages of the new situation:

By working in another company too, you can learn things, see technologies and methods which are not known or used in your current company, but which might be very valuable for them. You need to find reasons why your boss would benefit from this too. Then it should be no problem.

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How do I convince ...

You cannot "convince" them. You have to discuss this and haggle with your boss until you arrive at a solution.

The approach is simple: You give out the truth, and nothing else. No word-mincing, no keeping back, the simple and plain truth.

"Boss, I have a second job at Bank X. I am working there on Saturdays, and since they are open only at certain hours in the week, I need 4 hours on Friday in addition. Can we work out a schedule of how to get my work hours for you under control?"

Maybye your boss does not care, and simply reduces your workload and payment per week by 5 hours, and done.

But that's unlikely. At the least, Boss will be unhappy because it's something special - and special things always mean a little bit of effort for him (e.g., he cannot plan for you being there if you have a release on a Friday, and so on). At the worst, he will not allow you to stay away, and you will have to chose between the two jobs; maybe this could put you in an impossible spot if you have legally binding contracts with both companies that you just cannot fulfill.

Lesson learned: be open and crystal clear about such things during applying for a new job.

protected by Community Jul 17 '18 at 12:04

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