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tl;dr I work my ass off at work and my boss sees I'm driven and appreciates it. How can I ask for a title that will get me from 60k a year to 100k a year (AVP, Principal Systems Architect, ect) while also letting him know I would like to be closer to 100k than 70k?

Too Long version: My company is going through a phase of massive growth. We've built multiple buildings and just purchased two blocks downtown to build a high rise with retail areas and such in it to lease out because we've already grown too big for the building we build 3 years ago. When I was hired we had 200 employees, at the last company meeting they said we have 286 now.

I previously was working in a brokerage firm in Boston and attained the AVP title (no matter what anyone says, corporate titles mean something in finance. Just because "everyone" has one doesn't mean your pay won't go up substantially once you get it). I was making over 100k a year including various bonuses. My pay now is closer to 60k which I expected moving to the south, but I'm trying to get back to where I was in regards to salary.

I just got hired 13 months ago. I'm in IT and right now we are very under staffed, but our new CIO has plans to actually build out the org chart and bring in the PMO/BA groups under IT, ect. My manager just got promoted to VP and reports directly to the CIO. My manager was hired the same day I was.

I was hired as basically an application operations support engineer but I do zero of the things that were in my position description. I build new systems, support the entire suite of applications across the company, and now I've been given change management/release management duties. I'm automating workflows for our finance department and hitting the arbitrary and capricious deadlines they set even if it means doing my day to day work on the weekends. My boss knows how hard I work and has expressed how he sees I have ambition.

I feel that I am doing the work of a director at my last firm and my VP (boss) knows I'm rocking it and has mentioned that any time a position opens up they will offer it to me first to see if I'm interested. I actually really like my job and I like working on the weekends and putting in my time because I feel like it is helping me climb the ladder, and I don't have kids yet so I might as well do what I can now because they will be my focus when I have them.

I would like to bring up to my boss that I would like the title of AVP of IT (he is the VP of IT) and the salary that goes along with it (100-110k/yr from what I've seen online). I do all the things AVPs do, not only in my previous company, but from what I read online. I document implement and document processes, I create documentation on systems as I build them or as I support them (when I started we had zero documentation), I've build several automations . But I would even be willing to take a title like Principal System Architect or something similar.

How can I bring this up to my boss without sounding like I am going to leave if I don't get xyz salary or title? I just don't want to get fired for being too forward. I also feel like I've read so many things that say don't talk about salary with your boss because s/he'll just think you're in it for the money, but I would love to let him know at least what I would like, so he doesn't go work to get approval for 10k+ more a year and what I want is 20-30k. I would rather have the conversation to set both of our expectations but I don't know how to do it.

marked as duplicate by IDrinkandIKnowThings, Jim G., Michael Grubey, Twyxz, motosubatsu Oct 23 '18 at 10:31

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    I think it’s three fold: knowing your worth to the company, knowing your worth in the market, and being honest with your boss. Tell them your aspirations ($100k ideally) so that it’s a fair playing field for them, and what they come back with is an assessment of you telling them what you actually want and not what you perceive the company may or may not do – Mark C. Oct 20 '18 at 18:20
  • He's asked if I wanted to be an IT Release Manager and I've said that sounds good and written a PD for it. After researching it I don't think that is what I want to do in terms of my career path, but I read that if my boss offers me a higher position to take it and figure out how to do it later. Since he asked me about that we've gotten a new CIO that came from a larger organization and lost the remaining directors in my department so I have a feeling things are being shaken up more than a little bit. – NapoleonHillsStudent Oct 20 '18 at 20:33
  • My boss knows I want to be promoted and has let me know they will offer me positions first, but I want to let them know what I want (and the money I want) so we're both on the same page. I'm ok staying where I am with the pay I'm at, but if I can direct my future I'd rather do that. I don't manage anyone and have never had a direct report. I'm fine not having direct reports, the way I see it, I would rather have other manager's resources under me for special projects (like implementing an electronic service bus or robotic process automation) and making sure the teams that support... – NapoleonHillsStudent Oct 20 '18 at 20:36
  • Those technologies have the documentation and knowledge transfer to be able to support it well as I write second/third level support documentation (and act as second/third level support until we get the bodies in the department to do the actual support.) I'm studying for the ITIL foundations certification as well as getting my masters in software engineering from a well known school, so upper management knows I'm driven/willing to learn/do what it takes (in my opinion). I interact with the COO, CIO/VP of IT/Chief Claims Officer whenever there are system issues. – NapoleonHillsStudent Oct 20 '18 at 20:37
  • Also, we have no AVPs in my company. But when I started we didn't have any VPs in the company, and now almost every division has one under the C level. That is why I think now may be a prime time to either get an AVP title, or try to get an AVP corporate title. What I do now is more like what a director did at my last company plus actually doing the day to day support of systems. I've read managers that don't manage people manage processes. I'm basically trying to make a path for myself in a company that is trying to grow into what my last company was. – NapoleonHillsStudent Oct 20 '18 at 20:42
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Just being honest, based on your influx on comments as additions to your question, your thought process on this topic appears to be very busy.

I think you've realized that you are wanting more than what your current role has to offer, and perhaps are putting pressure on yourself to steer your career in a certain path (Management?) and are feeling like that needs to happen very shortly. I would see if this is true (only you'd know) and what your timeline is.

My boss knows I want to be promoted and has let me know they will offer me positions first, but I want to let them know what I want (and the money I want) so we're both on the same page. I'm ok staying where I am with the pay I'm at, but if I can direct my future I'd rather do that. I don't manage anyone and have never had a direct report. I'm fine not having direct reports, the way I see it, I would rather have other manager's resources under me for special projects (like implementing an electronic service bus or robotic process automation) and making sure the teams that support...

This comments really sets the tone for your question.

  1. You say you want the pay, but then say you're OK with the same pay if you can get into a different role (vertical, not horizontal).
  2. Your boss knows you want to be promoted, and has not stated that an AVP position is available to you. It's up to you to ask for that directly, if that's what you know you want.
  3. If your boss offers you another position (like he expressed with the Release Manager role) - it's essential that you are prepared to analyze that roles' responsibilities and day-to-day tasks, and get back to your boss with either "this sounds like something I'd like" or the opposite. I think it's unfair to you and the company that you said you'd entertain the Release Manager position but then are going to turn around and say that it's not something that you're actually interested in.

What I would recommend is to explicitly set your criteria, set your timeline, and know your goals and what next steps you can take to get there. Knowing what you want, that you're qualified (capable of learning) for the position you want, that the company has a position you'd be interested in (or willing to create that position) and if you'd be happy in that position earning $XXX,XXX will be essential towards the next steps in your career. You need to take the conversations and put them into Dates and Actions. E.g : At our next 1 on 1, I'd like to discuss the Release Manager role, because I'm worried that it won't be a good fit for me. I'm hoping that there are other opportunities that offer the same type of transition into Management, but doing

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