How to handle senior member of my organization who seems to think I'm not very smart after conversations at team lunches

Question

Background: I am a junior developer at a large software company. The person in question is a senior PM who reports to my skip-level manager (my manager's manager). My manager has worked with the senior PM before, advocated for him to be hired and the senior PM holds significant sway in our organization. I've been on the team for about 18 months, first as a contractor and was brought on full time about 4 months ago. My team frequently has lunch together, and this PM often joins us.

During 3 separate lunch conversations about politics (which is a frequent topic of discussion), I have expressed what basically amount to anti-war views about current happenings in US foreign/domestic policy. These are not wildly controversial or conspiracy laden views. You could find similar arguments to mine made in the opinion section of major news organizations. In each case, the senior PM in question very condescendingly and forcefully stated that my opinions were wrong. There was no room for debate, or any sense that we were having a conversation as equals. His view was right, mine was wrong and based on a lack of understanding of how the world works.

If I were not at work, I would have pretty forcefully argued back, as in each case they were on topics I am well versed in and are opinions which are strongly held and (I like to think) well reasoned. Given the large disparity in our place in the corporate power structure and the forcefulness of his dismissal, I just kind of bit my tongue and withdrew from the conversation.

This seemed like the right response at the time, as he showed no signs of considering other points of view and it was generally just going to be a dead end of an argument. Responding with equal force or insisting I knew better risked making him mad or causing some awkward tension at the table and generally seemed like a no-win situation for me.

I have generally written this off as "he's a pompous jackass whom I won't be discussing politics with anymore", but I've been left with the impression that he now sees me as naïve and not particularly intelligent. While on the one hand, I don't really care what he thinks and am perfectly capable of working with him without liking him, he holds considerable sway and works frequently with people who will decide my future promotions/bonuses/raises. If this is his opinion and it spreads to my manager, my managers manager, etc, it could negatively impact my career. I am aware my on the job performance will (or at least should) be the biggest factor in these areas, but I know office politics plays at least some role as well.

Further, this has just really gotten under my skin, as here I am posting about it online several weeks later. I've mostly stopped attending the team lunches because I don't want be talked to so condescendingly by this person. When I do attend and the senior PM is present, I just don't talk and come up with a reason to leave early. Avoiding the lunches as I have been seems like the wrong move as I can tell these are important team-building opportunities to my manager, but I've no interest in talking to this person.

So my questions are: Is there any benefit to mentioning this to anyone else in the organization (the PM himself, my manager, my skip-level manager)? My general thought is no as I just end up looking whiny and it's not really work related aside from the fact that we were on-campus and in a conversation with several other members of the team.

Is there any upside to defending my points of view in the future or should I continue to steer clear of personal conversations with this person? I'm generally fairly composed and can argue on points of logic rather than emotion, but I'm not entirely sure I can do this tactfully at this point. I also wonder if he's the type that will respect being challenged and by not arguing my point I'm feeding into his belief that I'm not anywhere near his intellectual equal.

Any general advice for working with someone who is significantly more senior to you that you really dislike personally? I would emphasize that in work-related matters, there have been no issues to this point. I probably spend more time checking my grammar in emails to him than I would normally, but otherwise the working relationship is fine.

Answer 1

To cut to the heart of the matter:

To succeed in business, there is a critical skill you must have

Critical skill you must have to succeed in business: You must be able to make small talk.

You must be able to

1. engage in positive, harmless, non-controversial professional business-level small talk

2. you must be able to keep it non-rowdy, non-political, non-religious

3. even if another party mentions sex or politics, you must be able to politely diffuse that and instantly turn it back to positive, harmless, non-controversial professional business-level small talk

Those three points together are described as "polite human small-talk".

If you cannot do this you will not make it in business.

When you find yourself in a unfortunate situation where you must pass time with either

• prospects
• seniors
• customers
• clients

You literally must have the skill of being able to engage in "polite human small-talk" , as specified in points 1/2/3 above.

HOT TIP: the sales folks in your organization are, of course, masters at this skill. You can literally ask them how to do it (they will give you specific actual tips) or, you can observe them (you'll be astounded at their skill at this).

Note, it would appear that your organization engages in the very unfortunate practice of "team building crap". If so, it is absolutely necessary that you have the skill of being able to engage in "polite human small-talk" , as specified in points 1/2/3 above. At worst, just say nothing and appear somewhat quiet/withdrawn - which is totally harmless.

Please carefully re-read points 1/2/3. Especially point 3. And particularly 1 and 2.

This is a literal skill you must build. Just as you build skill in reactive programming, writing custom UX for Android or whatever.

You must build this skill!

Note - "point 3" was your downfall in the example at hand.

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A useful addendum:

OP says "[someone at work] that you really dislike personally..."

I urge you to drastically, drastically, change your mental poise. Do your work and then go home to your family and have a life. I literally, and I mean literally, could not state the name of the (wonderful - I think!) folks I currently work for, i.e. the tech lead on the current research project who I work with every day for months now. The idea of me "disliking" some colleague at a particular workplace is, inconceivable. If you are "mentally involved" with someone at work, I would urge that you must stop that, right now, today.

Please consider the following outstanding thought experiment technique which was passed on to me:

... you're having a conversation, about Pokemon, with a small child. (Perhaps you meet a family on a bus, it's a friend's child, or whatever.) Obviously, you're kind and it's a fun conversation. You neither talk down nor up to the child; you give your opinion on the Best Pokemon and you listen to the child's detailed views (there's that "out of the mouth's of babes!" humorous stuff) on their heartfelt opinion on the Best Pokemon, and so on.

Now you will agree with me that:

Afterwards, it is totally inconceivable that you will replay the conversation in your head, or find yourself thinking "Oh man, that kid had no clue about blah blah blah..." Am I right?

If you examine this example interaction, you will in fact learn how to "make small talk with other adults" in a professional and competent manner. A lightbulb will go on and you will "get" the mental poise to have when taking part in the critical skill of professional adult human small-talk.

You probably know that thought experiment for folks who are shy ... "imagine everyone else is naked..." Right? It's an amazing thought experiment technique . I hope, the "talking Pokemon with a small child" thought experiment will help with the specific problem you describe: inability to make professional, competent small-talk.

Again, if you find yourself thinking anything about some other person at work, ("I dislike them!" "I like them!" etc), I would truly, truly urge you to drastically change your mental poise, literally today.

Be a professional, work, and go home to your family as soon as the bell rings.

Answer 2

During 3 separate lunch conversations about politics (which is a frequent topic of discussion), I have expressed ...

Well, there's your mistake right there. It doesn't actually matter what you expressed. Work and politics don't mix. In fact, don't express Strong opinions about anything - even to say that kittens are cute.

Given the large disparity in our place in the corporate power structure and the forcefulness of his dismissal, I just kind of bit my tongue and withdrew from the conversation

Yup, that's the way to do it.

Is there any upside to defending my points of view in the future or should I continue to steer clear of personal conversations with this person?

Surely you can see that there would be no upside to it? You have, in fact, already answered that when you said

There was no room for debate, or any sense that we were having a conversation as equals. His view was right, mine was wrong and based on a lack of understanding of how the world works.

You can't win this one.

When I do attend and the senior PM is present, I just don't talk and come up with a reason to leave early

Is about the best that you could do - if you want to stay in that job (do you?). Hopefully, with time, he will forget somewhat, or find someone else with whom to demonstrate his superiority.

The only other thing that I can think of is to find some topic that you both agree on, and try to steer the conversation there. You can even get away with

"You know that we will never agree on trump, but how 'bout them thar (sporting team/kittens/work topic; e.g next deadline).

Answer 3

And now you've learned why discussing politics at work generally isn't a smart move. There's just too high a chance of running into someone with entrenched views that are opposite to your own.

Is there any benefit to mentioning this to anyone else in the organization (the PM himself, my manager, my skip-level manager)?

Nope. Because..

My general thought is no as I just end up looking whiny and it's not really work related aside from the fact that we were on-campus and in a conversation with several other members of the team.

Nailed it!

Is there any upside to defending my points of view in the future

Your call.. if someone brings it up to you then you can if you want but it's probably preferable to just say I don't talk about politics at work or similar.

Any general advice for working with someone who is significantly more senior to you that you really dislike personally?

It's never a great situation to be in - but it's fairly inevitable that pretty much everyone will encounter it at some point. Just keep things professional, polite and do your work to the best of your ability. If you find yourself building up a head of resentment or hatred for them then periodically vent to someone suitable outside of the work environment (Spouse, pet, therapist etc)

otherwise the working relationship is fine

Whatever faults this PM may or may not have, here is one situation where it is worth following their example. For all we know they might be going home and telling their Spouse/pet/therapist that you're an idiot - but if so they don't appear to be letting it get in the way of conducting a professional relationship.

Answer 4

In my experience, There are 3 topics that are never to be discussed in a professional environment; Politics, Religion & Gossip! These are big No-Nos if you want to make your workplace comfortable. Opening these can of worms during lunchtime or anytime is going to cause people to change the way they feel about you professionally or it might even ruin the respect they have if they feel opposite from your views. But since you already engaged in the touchy topic, I would just try to squash it one on one lunchtime or when its brought up again say that you respect the other point of view & opinions and moving forward I hope we can focus on your work performance other than political views. Anything along those lines with the words “respectfully” & “moving forward” Keep in mind, Everyone is entitled to their opinions an choices and trying to change them is like beating a dead horse. They should also respect your values & opinions too so if they treat you poorly because of what you said, you have to keep your cool, and remind them please respect my values, as I respect yours and say what you want to say. There is no need to clarify or bring it up again, if someone doesn’t like you, let it go, just move keep moving forward. If it escalates, never complain to co-workers, do not start name calling. If you can’t talk it out together, then bring it straight to management or give it space & time. From now on try to keep all future interactions peaceful & productive, talk about more pleasant things that you both like or compliments always work. I hope this helps.

Answer 5

I agree with the other answers that you should generally avoid topics where people get very emotional like politics or religion, but sometimes that is all that some people want to talk about so sometimes you don't really get a choice.

The best way to deal I have found to deal with a situation where you are stuck in a conversation like that is to just let the other person keep talking. You don't need to go into detail about your opposing views, if they are bringing up the conversation then they are probably going to be more than willing to do all the talking. You don't need to blindly agree with everything they say, but try to raise questions from a logical point of view, is their an economic argument or isolationist reason to avoid foreign wars? If you approach it in an unemotional way then they will either see you as an ally or at least as someone who is willing to listen to their opinions.

It never hurts to listen to someone else view point even if you disagree