54

I am in a great confusion, where my heart says to leave but my moral says that today whatever I am because of the present company.

Gist: I wanted to switch to a product based company, for that I prepared well, gave 1 hour every day to the data structure, Algorithms and competitive programming along with working in a service-based company for 9 hours + 1 hours on traveling.

I finally got selected to a product based company which has a salary of 2.78 times my current salary.

The HR of the new company told me that you need to join the company in 45 days then only we can give you an offer letter. My present company has the provision of 60 days exact. I cannot apply for buy back as I am a very critical resource in my project, and be sure that my present company is a service-based so they can't offer me that salary.

I am trapped now in war, my heart says to join but I don't know how can I join. I asked the new company HR that please allow 15 days extension to 45 days, but she says talk to your present company HR.

Now I have an option that if I go and talk to my present HR about leaving then there will be a buzz around that I am leaving, and if the present company don't release me in 45 days then I will be blown in the company and the fact they will know that I am trying to leave.

I really want to avoid the above condition, is there any short stuff or pitch that I can give to my new HR so that he/she can consider me for 15 days more extension.

I really want to join that company, but whatever I have learned in the present company is precious, I can't ditch them.

Please suggest a valid argument that I can pitch to the new HR.


I talked to the HR and they responded to me very promptly, they told me that they have joining dates in October and November. And since I can't join in October, so I selected November.

PS: today I am resigning from my current company and will be now in the notice period.

Again thank you all guys who have responded to me. This is my first switch and now since I have gone to a product based company which was my dream I feel very happy.

Thank you all 😊

  • 2
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Snow Aug 27 at 10:07
  • Voting to close. The original question was based on a very big misunderstanding by the OP and is not likely to help anyone else. – Chris Aug 30 at 16:40
35

Doesn't matter in which part of the world you maybe, Always, always always make it clear to your future perspective employers how long your current notice period is before you start interviewing with them.

Kind of agree with what Chris says, no business is going to get lost in 15 days unless it's NASA and you have to pack yourself in an Astronaut Suit, fly into space und save the earth form a colliding asteriod in those 15 days.

Unfortunately this demand from the new company about joining within 45 days is unreasonable and stubborn.

Tell the new company clearly you can't join in 45 days, reason being on professional and moral grounds you don't wish to leave your previous employer in a mess.

If your new company as an employer itself doesn't resonate with it. They aren't a good employer anyway.

A big positive takeaway here

You got through the interview process of one product based company, there is no reason you can't do it once more. :)

  • 4
    "always clear out your current notice period before you start interviewing" - and then if you don't get the job, then you're just jobless? huh? – BlueRaja - Danny Pflughoeft Aug 27 at 3:31
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    Well, It I didn't mean resign without job offer, rephrased the sentence for better understanding. – Anirudh Aug 27 at 4:59
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    What if OP has some sort of critical role? "Sorry team of 20, we're going to have to push the schedule back X days - Doesn't matter how critical the role is or how specialised the OP in his role maybe, the first 10 - 15 Days are inevitably the bare minimum the onboarding time – Anirudh Aug 27 at 5:30
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    @Mars Then that company sucks at planning. More seriously if they need a critical resource and the offer has been made to OP, then OP is either the best candidate or the only suitable candidate to apply. So either they delay, use someone worse or keep looking and risk spending more than 60 days looking and have an even longer delay. None of this is the OP's problem or responsibility. The business will have to make a judgment call on this one. From OP's POV he will either work his notice or not, and if he does the new employer will wait or withdraw the offer. – mattumotu Aug 27 at 13:05
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    @Mars sure stuff happens, but "Sorry team of 20, we're going to have to push the schedule back X days" happens and may well be better than "We hired the only candidate available at short notice, shame they aren't competent." – mattumotu Aug 28 at 10:35
204

Please note that this answer is based on the original post and comments, which described a completely different context than after the edits. The original question was mainly based on a misunderstanding by the OP.


Someone has to say it..

Do not join the new company!

You didn't even start and they are already blackmailing you! It's completely unreasonable to insist on a shorter notice period without offer letter and giving reasons. Especially because from your comments it seems they don't care when you will start, but it must be on short notice.

You don't have an offer letter, therefore a lot of bad things can happen. They might still be considering another candidate as you haven't signed anything and therefore they might change their mind. Also after you hand in your notice but haven't signed the new offer, they might think that a little bit less salary might be better for you. Or they just wanted to damage your current employer. Or whatever ...

Again...

Do not join the new company!

  • 24
    There's nothing in the OP to suggest that the company didn't give reasons, and the "offer letter" part seems like an English miss. OP received a salary offer already--they HAVE the offer. But the condition of the offer is that they have to join within 45 days. It's totally reasonable to say "we will only hire you if you can join by X date." – Mars Aug 27 at 4:30
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    Why is requiring someone to start within a given period considered blackmail? – John Aug 27 at 4:47
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    @John Because they want him to do something he cannot do without getting himself personally into trouble and stating they will take away this opportunity which is something he really wants. That's not what the Oxford Dictionary would call "blackmailing", but it's close enough for me. – Chris Aug 27 at 4:55
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    @John Also note that they don't want him to join at a given date, they just want to force him on a shorter notice period, no matter when it will happen. – Chris Aug 27 at 4:56
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    @VishwaRatna So it was a date, not "45 days." That is much, much more normal I will write an answer below! – Mars Aug 27 at 6:31
78

Being in India (but Europe would be the same in that respect), if you have 60 days notice period, the company can force you to work for 60 days for them and not work for any other company for those 60 days. You could of course offer a shorter notice period and it might be accepted, but if it is not accepted, there is nothing you can do.

I know that. You hopefully know that. Your old company knows it, and importantly your new company does. So if the new company says you can only have the job if you agree to start in 45 days, they know you can't do that. What they ask of you is ridiculous.

Don't worry about how you manage to achieve the 45 days notice - it is impossible, so the new company essentially says they don't want you. (They may actually want you and be run by imbeciles who don't know how employment in their own country works. In that case, you don't want to work for them).

Trying to negotiate with your current company would be a massive mistake. Clearly they have nothing to gain from accepting 45 days notice, so they will refuse - because they can. Then your new offer falls through, and having told the current company you want to leave means you can forget about promotions, raises etc. for a long time.

What could work (but isn't your situation): A new company could say "Here's a legally binding contract for you to start in 60 days. However, we would love you to start earlier. So if you can get a shorter notice period, that would be great. If not, you start 60 days from now". As I said, not your situation.

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Jane S Sep 1 at 0:03
19

From the edit/update:

I received the call letter with the date of Joining as 15th October. And today is 27th August and if i resign > today in my company i will be free by 27th October. Shall i ask then > to increase a date of 13 more days on the deadline. Shall i ask a > written document for that or email conversation is ok?

Here is the real heart of the question, which makes the other answers wrong. The situation is simple. There are two possible options:

  • They want YOU.
    Call, ask explain that you need 60 days (from when you receive/submit the contract), and ask for a later date.
  • They want someone, by that date and you are their current favorite.
    In this case, even if you ask, they won't change the date. In that case, there is nothing you can do. You are bound by contract to your current company, and cannot fulfill the conditions for the new company.

It's that simple. If you can, give them a call and explain your situation! If they can't change the date, it is unfortunate. Hopefully you find another company in the future that better meets your interests!


As Pierre pointed out, you can work with your current employer to try to leave in 45 days as well. However, you should only do this after you have signed your new contract!

  • I'm still surprised no one mentions finding an arrangement with the old company to be freed in 45 days, sometimes the boss of the new and the boss of the old company manage to reach an agreement that makes everyone happy – Pierre Arlaud Aug 27 at 8:10
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    @PierreArlaud Thats a good point, so I'll add something in. But the idea is that OP will only give their Notice AFTER they have signed the new contract. – Mars Aug 27 at 8:12
  • fair enough, but the point is discussing this with the current company, if OP feels safe doing so – Pierre Arlaud Aug 27 at 8:14
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    @PierreArlaud The point of the question is that OP doesn't feel safe doing so :) – Mars Aug 27 at 8:15
11

Most of these answers suggest "Don't join the company" simply because they are asking you to join in 45 days. Sad reality of India is that every company wants you to join immediately as even the recruiters have SLAs. So, this "can you join early" message is something every HR will ask. I have been asked "can you join on coming Monday" so many times. I got an offer to join on Friday, after interviewing on Wednesday. Recruiters in India keep looking for perfect candidate, and then get too desperate after few months. July-September is the period when their "perfect" candidate joined another company, so they are in a rush to fill the position. So, you hold the cards, you are going to drive the negotiations.

But they might have another person in wait list, so, I will suggest, you say yes to 45 days. You don't have to join just because you accepted the offer. Once you say yes, they will deny other candidates, thus providing you more negotiating power. One month down the line, negotiate joining date. Simply suggest that you need to go home for personal work, and you will prefer to join afterwards instead of taking leave one week into the job.

Plus most probably your current company will happily let you go early, if you ask few days later. Right now, they want to act like they hold all the cards. But 2 weeks down the line, they will realise they are paying salary for you to come and sit at your desk. At that point, they will suggest "can you not come to office anymore".

P.S. 80% salary hike is far more important than most people here realise. Indian policy is always "x% over last salary", doesn't matter what the last salary was. I was once rejected, because my last salary was too low and they couldn't do 150% hike. So, take the hike anyway, and look for another job 6 months later if this company sucks.

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    While I don't agree with a lot of this, it seems very pragmatic and local. The part about the salary hike being a good reason to go even if the company is horrible is good too. It's the same here in Japan (salary based on your previous salary) – Mars Aug 27 at 7:28
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    @Mars exactly. I was earning 50% less than market average, few years ago. I asked for market average salary, and was denied. Instead I got only 20% salary hike, which amounted to total 60% salary of market average. Next year, I got the highest salary hike of 7%. Even after two salary increases, I was still lower than market average. And all this because in my first company, I received no hike for 4 years (during the recession period). So, when HR asks me why I am leaving last company, I always say "because they paid less than market average". If HR gets offended at it, I don't care. – jitendragarg Aug 27 at 7:55
  • I know the pain. I also took a poor paying job after college, without realizing that it would affect me even if I change jobs – Mars Aug 27 at 8:10
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    The ironic bit is that the same companies/recruiters won't even look at you if you're unemployed, and available to start work tomorrow. Sigh. – user90842 Aug 27 at 17:14
  • I know. Apparently I need to have exactly 30 days of notice period and be able to reduce it down to 15 days. Available immediately, no shortlisting. Available in 2 months, no shortlisting. And they themselves have notice period of 3 months. In an interview, I talked to CEO directly saying "3 months notice period is a red flag, as it means you have high attrition rate", and he talked about how he is spending time and money on training. He rejected me for "not knowing the exact tech stack", for a management position. Dumbass CEO to be honest. I don't ever have nice words for idiots like him. – jitendragarg Sep 1 at 13:25
3

I am from India. I was in your situation 5 years back. BTW, Thanks for taking me back to 2014. I was so young, happy, single, etc etccc. So many blissful memories.

My new company asked me to join in 30 days but the notice period of the service company I worked for was 90 heck days. I couldnt join the new compnay or accept the offer. I got another offer from another service company (I have no intention to join there) and continued searching for new jobs in those 90 days. I got a call from the same product company again. This time I was just 40 days away from my freedom - you know what I mean by freedom. The service companies treat its employees (particularly the freshers) like slaves. India is truly a employer haven.

Bonus points: I got an offer from another service company and told them that I can join 30 days and they aksed me "Your company's notice period is 90 days and how can you join in 30 days? Were you fired?" They did not even consider the fact that the interviewee could have had an another offer. Understand the treatment. PS: That happened 5 years back. Situation has improved a bit if not a lot.

The product companies like Amazon, microsoft, swiggy, ola, etc in india do not give a damn about the service companies like TCS, CTS, infosys and its employees. That's why they asked you to find ways to sack your current employer. You are paid 50% less money than what you are supposed to make, so do not feel bad about leaving behind the company that you delusionaly think helped you grow. It is you who learned and grew. That credit cant be given to anyone except you. All the employees working with you are as intelligent as you are? If so, you can declare that it is the company who helped you grow.

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    Not sure how this answers the question. It seems more like a personal story that would have been better suited as a comment. – Catsunami Aug 27 at 15:43
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    @Catsunami can you write this long answer in a comment? OP and I are from same country and OP does understand my answer. I think that's enough – SavaDhevelopar Aug 28 at 12:46
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    You didn't even provide an answer though. OP asked for a "valid argument to pitch to HR". You just talked about yourself and never gave him an actual answer. I don't think you even explicitly said whether to take the new job. And yes, you can definitely condense what you wrote into a comment. – Catsunami Aug 28 at 16:10
  • OP has to find the right job while he is serving his notice in the service company. This shortened answer is not for the OP as he already understood it, just for you @Catsunami – SavaDhevelopar Aug 30 at 1:48
  • He obviously didn't use your advice, so I don't see why you think he understood or even cared about what you said. You imply that he somehow feels bad leaving his company, but that was not his question at all. He didn't feel bad leaving them, his question was about HR legalities and negotiations. Hope you can understand that. I suggest you take a step back and learn how to accept criticism, it will help your career if you actually are a developer. – Catsunami Aug 30 at 14:44
2

From a US standpoint, this is all very strange and this semi-collusion between companies would be in the realm of potentially illegal. It almost reads as though they buy and sell you with each others’ permission being required. Please do factor in that I do not know the legalities and customs of Indian employment.

If all parties are legitimate and truthful, then you have no moral dilemma. It is admirable that you wish to not offend / harm your current employer, but you are a cog in their machine. Your responsibility is to you. They didn’t give you a job. They hired you because you had assets they needed. Given your importance on this current project, it sounds as though they have been fortunate to have you. If you are worth 80% more than your current employer is paying you, they have been taking advantage of you for far too long. Their being a service industry in no way means they have a right to skills at a 46% discount. It only means their value and market competiveness are subpar to the other options available.

As another pointed out, there seems a huge concern if the offering company is requiring you to jeopardize your current standing in order for them to do you the favor of formally offering you the job. I’m concerned for you that they may not be all they want you to believe. I’ve seen enough questions about companies reneging on their verbal offers to be concerned about whether they are legitimate or hoping that by you jeopardizing your current position, they can provide an offer letter that is substantially worse than what they’ve told you.

It sounds like the safest thing is to underscore that you love the idea of the new company but your current company has a strict rule of 60 days and you have no control over it. As such, without a firm offer you are unable to move forward. This does mean you may lose what you hear to be a great opportunity. What it also means is if you do lose it, they may very well have been lying to you. Their tactics of waiting until you have made yourself vulnerable are concerning. Add onto that the fact that they are perfectly fine with waiting over six weeks for you but entirely against less than nine weeks sounds like they are at best in a desperate situation.

  • 5
    This period in India is always a desperate situation. Simply because companies rescind offers regularly. So, candidates started accepting more than one offer at a time, meaning they said no to someone for sure. Since most people start looking for job after abysmal salary hikes (less than inflation, just fyi), mean most people look for job around april. So, july onwards companies end up in situation where someone rejected offer at last moment. In this situation, they are most definitely in a rush. That's why they are trying to negotiate the notice period. – jitendragarg Aug 27 at 7:12
2

You basically have three options.

  1. Tell the new company that you are not available until the date you mentioned. (I'd start with this regardless, as they might facilitate you)

  2. Break the contact with the current employer, and just join the new company.

  3. Don't leave your current employer.

There are usually provisions for the second option in your contract - usually it would involve forgoing a pay period. But if this second job is your dream job, and you aren't too worried about burning bridges, then go for it.

Just be warned that if things go south, the first company will be less likely to take you back than if you went through the proper process.

Note: This advice is valid for Australia, and I suspect many other countries. Check your contract.

1

This is somewhat of a catch-22 situation and I don't think there is one great answer. I didn't notice your location – you said about your current company

if they don't release me in 45 days

which implies your area doesn't have at-will employment laws. If that is the case your only hope is to lean on the side that is more likely to give in to your situation. I don't know exactly what you should say to the new company because they could very well just skip you and hire someone else who can start in 45 days. You can only use your judgement and if neither side will budge, you're out of luck and must stay at your current job.

If that is not the case, it still will not be a perfect solution but here is what I would do:

It seems to me like the new job is amazing for you and there really shouldn't be a world in which you don't take it. That being said, you're going to have to prioritize the needs of the new job over the guilt of leaving the old job. Move forward with the new company, receive the official offer, put in 45 days of notice at your old job (or less if you want), and suffer the consequences. Enjoy your doubled salary.

  • 3
    He has no offer yet so there is nothing to accept. The new HR said that will provide an offer if the notice is 45 days so there is nothing written but a vague promise that may become an offer. – Paolo Aug 26 at 18:14
  • @Paolo exactly, so he should go to the new company, get the official offer, then accept the consequences with his old company. I'll edit my answer to reflect this. – possum_pendulum Aug 26 at 18:22
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    This is terrible advice. Do not tell the new HR that you accept the job (this answer literally says to do that) without seeing a contract. Ask for a contract. It can have a non-negotiable start date. – Catsunami Aug 26 at 19:41
  • @Catsunami I never meant to imply OP should irresponsibly accept the job without a contract. I only meant they should move forward with the new company. Obviously my advice here is whether to prioritize the new company or the old company and nit picking about the minor details of the hiring process has nothing to do with it. I'll edit my answer to reflect this. – possum_pendulum Aug 26 at 19:59

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