Are "Reference Lists" a thing of the past?

Question

Without being asked to, I provided a list of three references at an interview I recently had and they told me they were surprised, because most people don't provide references anymore. I am only 29 and I can't imagine that in the last 7 or 8 years things have changed that much, but is this really true? They said most people are not okay with having their current employers contacted for a reference, so it's not expected of people to provide them anymore, but my list was made up entirely of prior colleagues. Are these of no value to potential employers anymore?

Answer 1

In the US, the value of references has been significantly impaired by lawyers. Typically, there will be a policy that says, "You can confirm the dates of employment. Period." People are scared that they will be sued for damages if they provide any actual information. The referenced person might complain about being knocked, and the new employer might complain about being fooled into hiring a problem.

In spite of this, some of us continue to ask for references, because (a) checking that the resume is not completely fabricated has some value, and (b) because every so often someone actually speaks freely.

I've never heard of anyone being expected to volunteer a list of references before being asked for it.

Answer 2

For diversity, let me provide an answer that is not US centric, but Denmark centric (and possibly also applies to much of the EU.)

It is customary, when you quit your job, to ask for a written recommendation from your nearest boss. And unless you were fired for not doing your job, your boss will most probably provide one. It is normally a single full page with:

1. Formal: Dates of employment and your responsibilities.

2. Professional: How is your personal approach to the tasks/challenges you were presented during your employment. How do you usually contribute to team effort, and how can your next employer best utilise your skills. Etc.

3. Personal: A bit about your personal relation with your previous boss. How did you contribute to the atmosphere at the workplace, what is your general mood, etc. In DK it is common to have a friendship-like relationship with your boss, you are pretty much seen as equal but with different responsibilities. Your boss decides what you do, and you do what your boss decides (unless you have a better idea), but that does not mean you are not (almost) equals.

4. Contact information, such that the next employer can call and validate the information and get more details.

So to answer your question directly (DK centric): References are not a thing of the past. Usually you will provide one full page per previous employment with very specific details on your performance in that position.

Answer 3

Referees aren't a thing of the past, people will (on occasion) ask for them and they use them if they're useful/trustworthy. I'm taking up a contract soon based on the fact that in a past role I worked with someone at the new company, and he happened to be asked if he knew me and he happened to like me.

So, no, "reference lists" or "referees" are not a thing of the past. But how they're used - a referee known to the company or at the company you're applying for is invaluable. A referee at some other company? Not so much. If the hiring company doesn't trust you, who they've met, why the hell are they trusting Alice who they've never met?

With that out of the way then, I've not had a lot of exposure to people ever asking me for a list of referees when I apply for a role. Maybe for the first job I had? I know people who'd say nice things about me, but it's not like I keep an active "list" of such people.

There are two problems with referees, or "reference lists" if you will:

1. You need to keep the referees abreast each period you begin looking for roles, and making sure they're happy to act as referee. I'm sure they are, but the politeness counts.

2. Unscrupulous recruiters / HR staff might look up your referees and try to offer them the role instead.

Its really point 2 that is more the problem. I've never given out a list of referees, so I cannot say that point 2. has ever effected me - but man, the recruiters I've dealt with? I wouldn't hand them a list of groceries, let along a list of people they can call up and badger.

Answer 4

updated

Yes, I believe references are a thing of the past. (US)

We don't ask for references and I believe the last time I was asked for them was over 20 years ago.

It's a combination of two reasons. First is that it's trivial to come up with a list of 3 or so people to say how great you are. So "personal" references are pretty much meaningless. Honestly, who would list someone that might even consider saying something bad about you? You could be the worst XYZ in the world and still find a few people that would be willing to say you were pure awesomesauce. Just look at linkedin. I've had dozens of people "recommend" me as an expert in things that they would have zero clue about. It's meaningless.

The second reason is corporate policy. Most businesses tell their managers that they aren't even allowed to speak with other companies about an existing or previous employee and instead must refer all questions back to HR. So as long as the manager is following policy then the best you can hope for are the dates a person worked there, the amount of money they were making when they left and the job title.

update: In the US it is not illegal for a manager to give more information if they choose. They can certainly say "In my opinion, Bob was a terrible worker". However the manager needs to be careful to stay away from giving false or misleading information. The example I've been given is a manager can't say "Bob was fired for theft." unless it was proven in a court of law that Bob did indeed steal from the business.

At the end of the day, I believe asking for references is pointless and my personal experience has been that very few others actually bother to ask for them anymore.

Today, background checks are king. It's cheap and trivial to run them on someone.