Timeline for Is it illegal in Germany to take sick leave if you caused your own illness?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
19 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Mar 14, 2019 at 6:17 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | But if everything went well with an optional surgery, how you handle that is the employees problem. Most likely by taking vacation days. The point is: you don't get sick leave in the first place, because the doctor is not allowed to write that note. | |
| Mar 14, 2019 at 6:16 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | @Revetahw In a way you are right. You do not get paid time off in Germany either for "optional" things like cosmetic surgery or for example reproductive surgery of any kind. However, it's very simple: you don't get a doctors note for that. The doctor is not allowed to give you a sick note. Only if the surgery somehow goes wrong. Lets say you get surgery that is considered "voluntary" and later as a result have to be hospitalized for heavy bleeding after the surgery, you will get a sick not for the later. | |
| Mar 14, 2019 at 5:11 | comment | added | smci | @Revetahw: then do Norwegians bundle cosmetic with non-elective surgery? | |
| Mar 14, 2019 at 4:55 | comment | added | jwenting | @aaaaaa yes, Italian collusion with those trying to wreck the German pizza industry! | |
| Mar 14, 2019 at 0:43 | comment | added | Polygnome | "Sick time may or may not be paid by your employer, depending on their policies.". No. The employer has no say in it. In rare cases, e.g. when the harm is self-inflicted, payment can be refused by the insurance provider, but this doesn't depend on policy - it depends on the law, and will in doubt be decided in court. The employer can't even decide, because they lack the necessary information. If you get an AU, no cause is given, only start and end date. For the employer to challenge this, they would have to call the AU fraudulent and take action against the doctor... | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 22:45 | comment | added | Fiksdal | @WoJ Yeah, I meant purely cosmetic surgery. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 22:43 | comment | added | WoJ | @Revetahw: but in that case I guess there is a list of medical actions which allow for a sick leave, and others do no - and in that case there is "sick leave" or "just absence" (in the sense that once something is listed as "entitled to sick leave" there is no discussion, nor arbitrary decisions by the employer). BTW I am sure that reconstructive plastic surgery would entitle for a sick leave for instance. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 22:16 | comment | added | Cullub | So can you purposefully make yourself sick and then take sick leave? | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 21:45 | comment | added | Fiksdal | @nvoigt No exceptions? In Norway you do not get paid if your sick leave is due to plastic surgery, for example. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 19:48 | comment | added | Ghanima | I get your point. The employer and their "policy" got nothing to do with it, you're right. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 19:46 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | @Ghanima The "always" in my comment here is meant to say there are no "policies" the employer could dictate. The employer has no say in this. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 19:41 | comment | added | Ghanima | @nvoigt, here it reads "is always paid in full" (emphasis on always) whereas your answer and EntgFG state that certain rare cases (as you put it "on purpose" or "with gross negligence"). EntgFG §3 (1) puts it this way ohne daß ihn ein Verschulden trifft (which I am sure you know, as - again - your answer covers that). | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 19:27 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | @Ghanima I'm not sure why you think my comment disagrees with my answer. I can see no discrepancy. The employer pays the sick leave, the health insurance pays the employer and the health insurance, as the entity who paid the bill in the end, might turn to the employee to get their money back if it was gross negligence. That's what my comment says, that's what my answer says. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 18:38 | comment | added | corsiKa | @aaaaaa It's not collusion, but there was probably a social media campaign to unduly influence OP's decision on what to have for lunch. Sad! | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 18:32 | comment | added | Ghanima | @nvoigt, I wonder why your comment disagrees with your own answer (which seems to cover a relevant fact as stated in EntgFG). But then again I wonder what's the point about the other answers which are based on guessing. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 18:23 | comment | added | xyious | Yes, but policies might restrict what 'sick leave' is. Some employers require a doctor's note, most only do for extended (over 1 or 2 days) leave. However, I don't see a doctor that wouldn't give you a note for an afternoon for virtually any reason | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 16:36 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | There is no "depending on their policies" in Germany. Sick leave is always paid by the employer in full, who in turn is reimbursed by the persons mandatory health insurance. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 16:20 | comment | added | aaaaa says reinstate Monica | "It may not be the wisest thing to do at lunch" suggests that OP was colluding with pizza to get sick. | |
| Mar 13, 2019 at 15:25 | history | answered | Kent A. | CC BY-SA 4.0 |