Timeline for Am I being ethical or annoying in refusing to 1:1 copy another company's UI for our own?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
23 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 7, 2020 at 22:11 | comment | added | Graham | @hfontanez Sure, and they can name Pee Wee Herman if they want. It doesn't mean you're on the hook for anything yourself. When the actions are non-criminal and cover your normal work, "my boss told me to do it" is an absolute defense. The more usual problem for a company is the reverse - how not to have the company on the hook for the actions of a rogue individual. So I'm afraid you really don't know that for a fact, because it isn't a fact. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 20:35 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @hfontanez, as such, I think that particular conversation would be more appropriate at the philosophy stack exchange than here. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 20:30 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @hfontanez, we'll stop here as you're trying too hard to make your argument objective. Ethics are defined as moral principles... If you agree morals are subjective, then ethics are subjective. End of story. Organizations may try to instill a shared set of ethics, and so while it may be subjective, it is shared and agreed upon as almost like a set of rules. This is basically part of our legal system that tries to codify certain mass shared ethical principles. If a particular ethical problem isn't codified, it carries no weight beyond what is supported by the individual carrying it. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 19:41 | comment | added | hfontanez | @JarrodChristman I think you are using "ethics" when you should be using "morals." Moral values are subjective as you argue, and are individual. Ethical standards are organizational, and therefore, non subjective. For example, doctors have a set of code of ethics that are obviously different than those of lawyers. However, among doctors, there is no ambiguity (or subjectivity) as to what those ethical standards are. However, each doctor (in this example) would most likely have distinct set of moral values. I think that is why your argument is confusing. Bottom line, ethics are not subjective. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 19:36 | comment | added | hfontanez | @Graham if a party is damaged by non-criminal actions, said party can name any and all involved. Using "my boss told me to do it" may get you off in the end, but it is not a guarantee. I don't have time to research this and prove this to you, buy I know this for a fact. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 16:39 | comment | added | Graham | @hfontanez This is not a criminal case, nor could it ever be a criminal case. Copyright is civil law. And you can't be held personally liable, because the principle of "respondeat superior" applies when you have been directly instructed by your boss to do something which is within the scope of your normal work. This is really basic stuff. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 15:49 | comment | added | bob | @JarrodChristman That's fair. I think different people are going to read it differently. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 15:42 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @bob, but what font is it? Sans-serif, Times New Romain, some other near ubiquitous font? I am just saying, what is bad faith based on the information given only, is people subjectively assuming such. You may be right, but in my opinion there isn't enough information provided to know that for a fact. Thus the best course of action would be to assume no ill intent or malice. Even further, I think trying to assume what is ethical on a personal level is inappropriate for the question. Short of objective legal evidence of wrong doing, only the OP can judge if it violates their own personal ethics. | |
| Feb 7, 2020 at 15:07 | comment | added | bob | But same font is not convention; it's copying. So this appears to be in bad faith, not following a convention. To me anyway... | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 23:26 | history | edited | Jarrod Christman | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6, 2020 at 23:15 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | I edited my answer to further clarify. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 23:14 | history | edited | Jarrod Christman | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Clarification to answer how to handle the situation
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| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:32 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @cdkMoose, I should make it clear that when someone, like the OP, makes statements of what other people have stated, I generally disregard things like tone. It's not a distrust toward the OP or similar, it's just that such statements are seen through the eyes and mindset of the OP. The tone might be accurately reflected in the question, or it may not be, so instead I prefer to focus on the factual statements provided only. But I am fine if you or others disagree with me. This ethical topic seems like a mixed bag for a lot of people on this site as is. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:28 | comment | added | cdkMoose | True, but the tone of the manager's response suggests that it will. You're right we don't know that. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:26 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @cdkMoose, you're making the assumption that the final product will also be shipped that way. Perhaps this is the first pass at modernizing the existing interface to something a competitor has that seems more intuitive. We don't know the motives and do not know the thought process. It is essentially trying to predict the future. To me that is outside the scope of the question. He was asked, we don't know where it will go from there, neither does the OP. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:24 | comment | added | cdkMoose | yes, each of those individually may be a convention but there are plenty of other pieces of the interface that don't have a convention, so in my opinion, copying everything sans color is beyond convention. For example, wording of the text on the page | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:18 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @cdkMoose, same style icons, same position and layout...etc are conventions. A floppy disk for save, a tool bar that has 'file', 'edit', 'view' all in order are conventions. A web browser that has a left arrow (back), a right arrow (forward), a circular arrow icon for refreshing, the address bar all in that exact order are conventions and can be considered a 1:1 copy of another application before it. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:15 | comment | added | cdkMoose | I would define a convention as set of participants building similar appearance and/or functionality evolving into common usage. I can't see how copying makes convention. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:12 | comment | added | Jarrod Christman | @cdkMoose, but in a niche industry, that may be a convention that is forming as we speak. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 22:09 | comment | added | cdkMoose | This request goes beyond implementing a convention, it is copying a single specific source. | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 18:09 | comment | added | hfontanez | @user985366 This is not true. A company can name you in the lawsuit and a court might find you liable for damages in a civil case as well, even if you were instructed to do so. And, in a criminal case, you are not exempt just because "my boss ordered me to do so:" | |
| Feb 6, 2020 at 16:21 | history | edited | Jarrod Christman | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 6, 2020 at 16:16 | history | answered | Jarrod Christman | CC BY-SA 4.0 |