Is the advice "Don't state your target salary" for new jobs applicable for engineers on the German job market?

Question

Here on this site, I often encountered one advice regarding salary negotiations for a new job: Don't state the salary you aim for, as this allows the hiring manager to match this figure even if he/she has a higher budget.

I wonder if this is applicable in all business cultures. I'm a (non-software) engineer in Germany. I often read that at least for first jobs after graduation, the standard interview question for the target salary is more a gauge for ones sense of realism re. pay, not so much a part of negotiation. Case in point: At my first job where salary was not fixed anyway because of standing collective wage agreements. At my second job, I got paid more than I asked for. But maybe I did poor research, now I'm pretty sure I'm underpaid.

To get back to my question: Is it acceptable in German industry culture to withhold ones target salary, or does this rather raise red flags with HR people (considered rude, "not playing by he rules)?

Edit to add To clarify, I'm not asking about how entry level wages come about, I'm asking about wether I should tell my target salary. I'm not convinced that negotiating tactics from the anglophone world, possibly from the software industry, work equally well in german business culture so I'm looking for answer that specifically adress engineers in Germany.

Answer 1

I haven't done this in a while in Germany, so my views may be a little out of date. Here goes

This day and age salary ranges for certain positions are really not much of a secret anymore. See for example http://www.spiegel.de/karriere/berufsleben/gehaltsreport-was-ingenieure-in-welchen-branchen-verdienen-a-927737.html or http://www.ingenieurkarriere.de/_library/content/download/obj2559_Gehaelter_2013.pdf

In essence that's what the company expects to pay for a certain job description. By doing your homework, you can fairly well estimate what their target salary is. If that compares well to what you expect, than you are all good. Take your expectation, put 10% on for good measure and that's your target.

If there is a significant mismatch between their target and what you want, than that is a serious problem. A hiring manager typically gets a job approved with a certain budget attached. It's a royal pain to get this adjusted since the hiring manager needs to renegotiate the whole thing with her/is management. The candidate has to be really outstanding to warrant that effort.

The main reason why the HR people are asking for your target is actually NOT to get ahead in the negotiation but to determine early on whether there is a major misalignment and in which case there is no point in wasting more time on this candidate. That's also why it's typically okay to reply with a range and not a specific number. So "I'm looking for something in the mid seventies" is a perfectly okay answer.

Answer 2

In Germany the usual way is this:

1. If you're applying for a job, look if the job advertisement asks for your expected salary (most do). If it doesn't, don't mention it in your application. If it does, aim a bit higher than you'd like to get to have some leeway for negotiations. It is also OK to provide a span (e.g. 45-47.000€), as long as it's not too broad (so it doesn't look clueless). If the job advertisement provides too few information, you can say you'd to discuss your expected salary in person.

2. In the interview they will insist on you telling your expectation first (except public services, where salaries are often fixed). It's common to aim a bit higher than you really want. Especially smaller companies might ask what they could offer you instead of money (to pay you less ;-)).

I've had several interviews yet, and about half of them had two interview phases, where in the first one they'd like get the best candidates for the second round. Salary is addressed briefly in the first interview to check if it could work, more detailed discussion would follow in the second interview. After the second round, they'll make an offer to their favorite candidate.