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4

Why can you not join them? Is it a money or time issue? If it is a money issue, then they will understand. They do not expect that an intern is paid at the same rate as they are, and cannot spend at the same rate. In this case make a budget and go out with them on set days. An example might be every Friday and every other Wednesday. You should be ...


27

Am I forced to join them in this situation? Absolutely not. You are not forced to eat lunch with them every day. Yes, it is true that having lunch together strengthens the professional relationship, but you should do it when you feel like it (and when your budget allows for such). Next time they invite you, and you are unable or don't want to go, politely ...


0

This new colleague sounds like he comes from the cutthroat dog-eat-dog world of the academy, and might be unused to a more collaborative workplace. Keep in mind that there are dozens of qualified applicants for every professor job. (The academy is churning out far too many new PhDs for the available teaching jobs.) He's probably scrambling for recognition ...


2

Also a lead here. I disagree that a tech lead or dev lead doesn't directly manage people and therefore cannot solicit feedback from their team. You have "Lead" in your title either permanently or temporarily, which means you are in a leadership position. A good feedback mechanism is absolutely imperative to lead people properly. I would suggest a less formal ...


4

Fellow lead developer here. This is quite subjective answer and might not be suitable in all companies. The way I see it, is that lead dev is not a management position. It's technical position where you are in the end responsible for the technical result of the project. Become better lead dev primarily by learning new technology, get a better grasp of ...


2

Many other answers discuss if code formatting is worth it or not. That is entirely irrelevant to this question. This is about communication, not about convincing him that standardized code formatting is great. Take a step back. What you need to communicate is: What you're trying to achieve.* How you're planning to measure success. That extra bit of ...


1

Two additional points may be worth considering. You're asking for a black/white answer for a grayscale problem. Your code formatting rules could be reasonable, could be relaxed, could be nitpicking. I have seen all kinds of rules. So first, of all, check if the code format rules you demand are actually reasonable or not. Was the code formatting and all the ...


2

Speak with your boss, in private, to ask him this: "Sir, you said on (date) that I might be getting a raise. I could really use the increased pay. What can I expect about it?" Don't bring up fairness or years of service or the size of the raise he promised or anything else. Believe me, your boss knows about those things already. And, just for your own ...


3

I'm going to assume your representations of your lead developer's comments are accurate. These are not the comments of a competent lead developer. I say that as an experienced software and manager of software engineers myself. The feedback is unconstructive and highly inaccurate. A lead developer who does not understand the value of formatting standards is ...


6

A few months ago, on the suggestion of another colleague we introduced mandatory code formatting in the code base Since then, a colleague is always complaining and expressing disagreement about this decision The core problem sounds not with the decision per se but with the fact that this colleague's opinion wasn't taken into accont when making a ...


-6

There are a lot of answers here which focus on good technical arguments. To summarize: the team made a sound decision on how to proceed, and one individual rejects the team decision and the manager directions. The conversation which I would have is more along the lines of: did you just call my instructions and the team decision "bullshit"? Did you really ...


1

ABSOLUTELY NOT! According to you: Your boss already knows you should be paid a lot more than you are. Your boss is paying new hires considerably more than you. Your boss either has asked for a raise for you and been refused, or hasn't asked. You could make vague threats, but the company has shown they know how to hire new developers for your group, so why ...


3

I find a big difference between insisting on well formatted code and an auto-formatter being imposed on checkin. At my job we have a code-formatting mandate of sorts, which is loaded into the IDE, but when it goes really bad there's really something we can do about it because nothing will try to re-apply it at commit time. I'm willing to believe you have a ...


5

I finish my tasks, although it may take longer than others do. I have been with this company for almost 12 years, my first stint as a developer straight out of college at the age of 30. While many companies look after long serving employees, length of service in itself doesn't necessarily provide values to the company. What matters to them is how quickly ...


0

I would recommend bringing this up with your boss. You've proven yourself effective and an asset to the company. You probably won't get 20k, but it will be something. Also think about your position in life. Ageism is a thing in the programming industry which is something to consider at the age of 40+. You may not be hired at another firm again. ...


44

How would you deal with such situation ? I would try to understand the recalcitrant developers point of view. They may have good points to make that I'm ignoring. We implemented auto formatting on our codebase a few years ago and it caused no end of problems, partially due to the way it was introduced, but mostly due to the way it impacted our workflow. It ...


2

From a pragmatic point of view, I love code formatting simply because it makes diffing code so much easier. It will also make pushes much easier since if everybody is using the same code formatter, then in principle, adding a dumb inconsequential change to a file won't result in git thinking that the code has changed. Personally I am not crazy about how ...


2

Whitespace is actually part of the python syntax. Readability is already designed in the language. In fact, python has it's own recommendations on how to format your code. Best Practices, naming conventions, etc. it's called PEP (more specifically PEP8). Start there! Knowing PEP is something they can add to their resume! How would you deal with such ...


11

This isn’t about code formatting at all. It’s about the worst form of micromanagement possible. Whenever a commit is made, a stupid mindless micro-manager changes the code in a stupid micromanaging way. And this developer is pissed off. (It seems some people didn't get this - when I say "micro-manager" I'm talking about the code formatting tool). Your gain, ...


1

You're a manager, so let's try to manage him (and this), don't just tell him off or view him as a problem: "John, my responsibility is to make this as easy as possible for everyone, and for future employees, not just some of the people here today." "When most developers looks over code, its faster if they can take some things for granted, like the way the ...


8

This isn't about code formatting. It's about being a good and effective manager and enforcing a decision you've taken on how the team does work - which as you've said is considered and is likely to the benefit of the team, overall. I think the problem is best illustrated by removing the specifics from your question: I am the manager of a small team of ...


31

If I owned a bakery, I may want my bakers to use a standard size of loaf. It makes it easier to buy bags for the bread, for instance. I can have a consistent price on the loaves I make. My bakers may feel that this restricts their creativity. Some may like to make very small, or very tall loaves of bread. Other bakers may feel that they prefer a much ...


0

should I say thank you to the first person Yes, of course. A quick "Thanks" can never hurt. And if you copy in the second person, it may motivate them to help a (thankful) person.


5

You have a frank conversation about what the word "professionalism" means. Your "lead developer" is acting like a pouting child. He/she may have the technical skills of a lead but is obviously lacking the professional skills of a lead. It's about more than just writing code: technical skills are a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite of that position. ...


5

Far from a complete answer, but there is one point in here that sticks out to me. The code formatting in your commits in no way needs to be the same code formatting as is used in a developer's IDE while they work on a local copy of the repo. I don't know that I've ever worked on a collaborative project where every developer didn't have their code formatted ...


12

Perhaps the root cause of the problem is not related to Code-formatting, but something else? In my experience, this situation clearly shows that the dissenting individual has not expressed himself/herself in a mature and rational manner, immaterial of whether they are right or wrong. I am not sure how long the individual in question has been with you and ...


2

I had to deal with a similar situation in the past. The first thing to assess is what kind of mobber is your superior: is he tendentially sadistic? i.e. does he love to assert his power over people and make them struggle? is he tendentially emotionally unstable? Some leaders are not capable to handle insecurity, frustration, stress or anxiety as a leader ...


1

code formatting is totally bullshit This can easily be disproven by taking some example code (unknown to the developer), removing all newlines, tabs, and reducing multiple spaces to single spaces, and asking the employee to tell you what the code accomplishes. it's like colors, some people like it red some other blue that's it Yep. This is the case for ...


-1

I think that in this case it would be maybe possible to add a git hook that changes the code format to the one desired by the team on commit, and another one (used only by them) that changes the code format to the one desired by the team member on update. If the team member feels so strongly about this, it may also be a good occasion to learn more about ...


61

I would try to convince him of the positive effects of uniform code formatting. Git diffs become much easier to digest when commit n and commit n+1 have the same formatting. Maintainability becomes easier, assuming the formatter enforces good practices. In the end, corporate software development is a team sport. If your code formatter allows defining rules,...


18

"code formatting is totally bullshit" Even if this had a point (and it does not), black/white statements like this often hint at a very immature understanding of: how to deal with developer tools and discuss about their pros and cons in a balanced and context-rich manner (a.k.a. professionally) how to deal with teamwork We need professional and ...


4

Ultimately, as other answers have said, as a manager you have the authority to simply enforce a code style, and if someone doesn't like it, they can quit. However, this probably isn't great for morale or engagement, and an employee who begrudgingly forces their round code into a square style probably isn't happy or productive. To that end, your best course ...


100

Honestly, my reaction would be the following: Bob, I appreciate the feedback, but as a team we've decided that we're using Black as our mandatory code formatting tool, and that decision is final. I understand it's not your personal preference, but I'm afraid that you're going to need to learn to work with it. But if I wanted to engage in a discussion? ...


134

How would you deal with such situation ? After nicely comforting him, which you have already done, it's time to firmly tell them to deal with it. It is not an individual's code, but the company's. As a manager, you need the code to be as maintainable as possible by your team and new additions you make to the team in the future. "code formatting is ...


6

Realistically, people leave teams. Using stylers like these make it easier for another person to pick up the project in the future, and understand the actual content instead of speaking time understanding the formatting of it. Try responding with a positive of using them. For example, "code formatters are bs", "well, it can be easier to find simple ...


0

I think you are getting something very wrong here. You don't have to like the person, you have to be able to tolerate the person and collaborate with the person. I believe collaboration is best when you like each other. Yes and no...Collaboration is best when you have a common goal, if your friend worked with you, your common goal would be to complete ...


4

One point I'd recommend: Stop focusing on the "person" and start focusing on the "job" or "post" or "role". This means, you do not need to like someone as a person, you just need to make sure you can communicate and work with them - basically to be in sync with the work they do. If you do not like someone - no one is forcing you. When you need to work ...


0

Talk to them. Work with them. The more time you spend with someone the more you will share in common. Over time you will be exposed to some of their more positive (and negative) aspects which will usually change your opinion of them for the better. If, after a certain amount of time, you find that you really don't like the person then ask yourself why. ...


-2

No, you should not send a thank-you message. It's annoying enough to spend time forwarding emails that one can't respond to; it'll be even more annoying to see a useless follow-up email. Source: personal experience.


1

I'd say wait for a reasonable amount of time if you're not able to speak to them directly, as they are available only via email. The reasonable time to wait will be dictated by the nature of the question, and time that you can wait for without stretching the deadlines for whatever you're working on. A lot of employees get many emails within their inboxes, ...


6

Usually, only "Thank you" emails are considered unwanted by some people. If you want to convey your gratitude, while making the communication useful, extend the communication so that the person who is supposed to help you also feel interested in helping you out. You can respond to the email (which your first colleague forwarded) saying: Thank you first ...


-2

Only dogs have been mentioned here. People have different kind of pets, like cats, rabbits, birds and reptiles (for example snakes). If dogs are allowed, why not those other pets too? I would be asking that employee that kind of question, and see if that person would be the insensitive one.


-1

no, you can't bring your grandmother to Take Your Child to Work Day. This is without a doubt the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's extremely insensitive. The spirit of Bring your Child to Work Day is not about bringing children or hallmark cards. It's about showing your signification other or family what your work life is and to be proud about what you ...


-5

"Bro-senior, you know when you, like, make jokes in meetings and whatnot? Like, sometimes I'm lmfao inside when you do em' but bro more than once I've seen other team members get mad chilly, some mega side-eye at you. Just sayin'."


12

Why not write pretty much what you have written in the question? You seem to be pretty respectful, and to indicate that you don't take the comments the wrong way. If the tool doesn't support free-format text, write him an email saying it is prompted by the tool, but you don't know how to fit it into the tool.


1

The way I see it, it's an honest attempt to make everyone in the meeting participate. There's nothing wrong in that, however, I'd also agree that if this leaves someone in the embarrassing situation, it can do more harm that good. If someone is distracted in one meeting, inviting them to participate may have the desired effect (get their attention back to ...


0

The fact that is is happening in France makes the US-oriented answers completely wrong. This is not a psychological problem, as pointed out in the comments it's at least partly a legal one, besides being an enormous cultural blunder. It would be good @user104473 if you could have this conversation again with her at a calmer time, and point out that she is ...


0

Potentially, this could be escalated to a manager. Depending on the scope of the work involved, sometimes "separation of duties" is required as part of audit controls. Also, having dealt with jealous coworkers in the past, sometimes manipulation can be disguised as "help", where he/she is trying to take over your duties to advance themselves. I would ...


0

Is this an actual problem? If there is sensitive data on the computers that other co-workers must not access, it should be a company policy that every hire pledges to observe. With appropriate penalties. Push toward introducing such policy if you think it's necessary. This way you appear neutral, not aimed particularly against anyone. If the company ...


0

In one of my former workplaces we played this game, which I recommend as a deterrent to leaving a laptop unlocked: If someone's laptop is spotted unlocked, someone sends an email from it to the whole team saying they will bring snacks, cookies, or something like that to the whole team. People start locking their laptop and if they don't, they pay the price....


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